, Scott, I think the major problem with this approach is that in practice the alleged new revelations produced cannot really be judged by Scripture, if their subject matter is non-moral or not addressed in Scripture. He emphasizes that we cannot determine a level a relationship with God on an emotive scale but purely by the fruit of your life. He may prompt you to pray for a struggling, straggling friend. “You will show me the path to life; in Your presence is fullness of joy, at Your right hand there are pleasures forevermore.” (Psalms 16:11) 1 Corinthians 2:12 “We have received . For it is by their fruits you shall know them [and not by how intensely they jump up and down and wave their hands during a time of worship not that that’s bad in itself]. The Bible is no ordinary book, no mere collection of words and pages. Just as the presence of God hovered over the waters in Genesis 1, so the presence of God hovers over the pages of Scripture. But it can actually be quite helpful in learning discipline. Ponder that with me for a second and see if it doesn’t cause a shiver of delight to wrap around your spine. (Psal… We are foolish to try to experience the presence of God elsewhere if we’re not consistently immersing ourselves in the word of God. For example, Jesus’ interaction with the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4). It is also a control issue. In the end, most evangelicals believe that truth is something we empirically and propositionally establish. They were not only done by apostles. When does the series start? – but God is still communicating and speaking today. Blessing! I have not had time but hope to write on this theme over at my own blog one of these days. At times John witnessed multiple images and different perspectives of the same event. The presence of God is not walled off by a massive curtain, not hidden away inside the Holy of Holies, accessible only by the High Priest once a year. The book of Revelation describes how we will ultimately reap what we have sown, bringing on ourselves unimaginable human suffering before God intervenes. Also known as Universal revelation, general revelation deals with how God can beunderstood through his creation. But we don’t function in that realm. It doesn’t mean we cannot reasonably establish truth (though, again, it comes through something more holistic like the Wesleyan quadrilateral than some empirical approach to Scripture). God does not say what to do. The Holy Spirit has taken up residence in us, and we truly are temples of God. Jesus is present at those gatherings. We need direction for our daily lives. I feel the presence of God every day he is great God he has helped me and my husband every day of our lives thanks for your message. (Even when I was an Anglican, in those days, as now). Rather I prefer something more like the Wesleyan quadrilateral of Scripture, tradition, reason and experience. We don’t need to work ourselves up into an emotional state to experience God. But, to believe God is still continuing to reveal today, giving non-redemptive revelation, should not be seen as harmful to a faith that looks to be grounded in Christ, the gospel and the testimony of the canon of Scripture. Keep up the good my brother in Christ. As I write this, I’m reminded that experiencing the presence of God is never “weird”. But again, what is the test? How then do we sort out what is from God and what is not from God in a prophecy? No need to handle relics or offer prayers to the saints. Now, don’t get me wrong, I do believe in a certainty of faith. The Bible primarily speaks on matters of cosmology and history where these issues touch the nature of faith. I think there is a very unhelpful position when we swing the pendulum to say that the Spirit’s freedom cannot come in organized and centralized ways. Is this to be determined entirely on pragmatic grounds (i.e., if all details fall into place when you buy the house, it’s affordable, etc., then the prophecy was accurate?… but… what if later on the house turns out to have termites or some structural damage– is the prophecy now invalidated?… you see my point). It’s “dangerous” BECAUSE it is free. WhatsApp. More specifically, this can be manifest inphysical nature, human nature, and history. Thank you for reading my experiences I hope they help you in some way. But in neither case do we find those prophetic, and revelatory, words recorded in Scripture. “Francis” is actually a Jesuit social liberal, and uses Catholic traditionalism when it suits him, but then jumps down their throat when they don’t reply to his social gospel ideas. But there is One and One alone that is truly absolute and objective. We have such a great tool in helping asses present-day revelations, prophecies, visions, etc. God also reveals Himself to humanity in personal ways. I actually did that for about an hour, and then the next day at another worship session, a woman approached me and told me that she felt like God told her that I don’t have to try so hard to feel God. But I suppose that’s the beauty of the journey. Nothing is well done without prayer for the simple reason that it leaves God out of the account. One has to do with His eternal … Change ). God is the Creator; we are co-creators. But, again, this is another topic and a very large one for discussion. Btw, the best understanding of the so-called Quadrilateral, must be seen in the Lambeth , or Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral, 1888, and the Four Articles there!, and this is of course Anglican! Let’s stand on a firm foundation of faith. If we are in Christ, the presence of God truly is within us, and we have access to this glorious presence at all times through Christ our mediator. It is not owing to a good family of origin. This is why we highlight we walk a faith journey. sinfulness of humanity, theatonement, etc...), however, it is argued thatGod's existence,transcendence, immanence,self-sufficiency, eternality,power, goodness, and hate for evilcan be comprehended … In the OT prophecy was 100% accurate– the test was it either came to pass or it did not– has the nature of prophecy in this better age of the Spirit now been downgraded to hit or miss, partly right/partly wrong? Though it’s not PC to bring this up, I do believe that, whether many people want to admit it or not, there is a sense where control (or lack thereof) can determine our approach to this. We need not add anything. And, again, I’m not advocating some far out, antirealist epistemological position. The sweet, holy presence of God is always available to us, and we don’t need to use any manipulative “revival” techniques to access it. If we insist on the safe and sedate—he may just shake us up! Jesus Christ is the express image of who God is. We can experience the beautiful, glorious presence of God every single day. and that he doesn’t … You helped me to understand the presence of God. Once we see, we will have a fresh experience. This is a very insightful discussion of the presence of God. The reason we shouldn’t neglect to meet together is that it is one of the ways God preserves us to the end. But I don’t think it has to be this way. Having said that, I know your position shared much on my blog, but I’m not sure I would fully agree with this statement: True freedom of the Spirit is not a controlled, centralized, organized event. This is why I prefer the caveat prima scriptura to clarify that Scripture is never the only source of determining the will of God, though it remains at the forefront. We are not just in the presence of God in the same way that the rest of creation is. The Lakota people believe Ptesáŋwiŋ spoke directly to the people in the establishment of Lakota religious traditions. This should be a profound encouragement to us. Realize that God’s love is exactly what you were created for. He actually never desired anything … Every time we open the Bible, we are encountering the presence of God in a unique, powerful way. Every second of every day, we truly are in the presence of God. Again, I think it would be quite detrimental to say there is still more for God to reveal concerning the redemption of humanity through Christ and the gospel of the kingdom. When God answers prayers in ways that are humanly impossible. – but God is still communicating and speaking today. It’s just which weak vessel He chooses to use at the moment. cit., One God & One Lord by Mark Graeser, John Lynn, and John Schoenheit, pp. In all, this is why I believe it is worth distinguishing between a) redemptive and b) non-redemptive revelation. As an artist, it has been my experience that whenever I have taught drawing, I have to first teach people how to see. So I believe your concern here misses the reality of walking out our faith, whether one believes only in providential guidance or in both providential guidance & that God still speaks today. The first part was done before the foundation of the world. Never forget who’s God . God, the creator of the universe, the King of Kings, the one who keeps planets in the proper orbit and atoms from splitting, wants us to request things of him. Because when we are in the presence of love and holiness, we are “undone,” and we see ourselves as we really are. He at that time was found worthy to open them and did begin to do so. Rather, the presence of God has made his home in us. Of course they were, since we find this to be a major purpose of prophecy (see 1 Cor 14:3). In other words, Jesus himself is uniquely present whenever Christians gather in his name. There were many prophecies that did not come to pass – meaning, they were given as warnings of what would happen, contingent upon the people’s response (both Israel and the nations). The easiest thing is to not allow for it. I don’t try and make things happen I just trust that he will push me where I need to go, I hope that helps. Based entirely on the Word of God, Revelation Today will let the Bible speak for itself, and will take participants on an exciting journey through the major themes of the Bible. When He absolutely levels you through a particular passage of Scripture. Of course, there are plenty of other examples of this kind of revelation from God in places like the book of Acts. When our Lord became flesh, it was a full revelation of God’s nature — his mercy, grace, goodness and readiness to forgive. Click to Join Us On The Journey. II believe cessationism comes primarily from fear of “muddying” the gospel message. I’m not sufficient on my own for the day, but you are.”, In Matthew 18:20, Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”. We have received …the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Experience or Revelation. I think this is partially why the author of Hebrews says: …not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. But for frail, finite and fallen human beings to try and establish some kind of immovable, empirical foundation, it will actually crumble when we realize we non-God humans cannot do this. Would people actually listen if he did? Of course, even non-redemptive revelation comes from our great redemptive God. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Well, I think at times the wording of Grudem is not so helpful. What is the nature, extent, and value of that revelation and how does it compare with the knowledge we have of God through Christ and Scripture? . Continuationists believe God still speaks today, not only through the word of God in Scripture, but even through specific words or what we might term ‘revelations’. It would be more appropriate and more in line with Truth, if we … Talk about motivation to stay close to other Christians! It is extremely encouraging and instructive for those who are either addicted to their feelings or at least judge their level of Christianity based on their feelings as well as those who have never experienced the feeling of the presence of God. They were unique in connection to the apostles and their associates. These gifts were not only used as “signs,” but also in the role of edification and strengthening. It is no safe thing to open up the Bible. He actually never desired anything … Spreading and sharing the love of God makes us happier than anything else. Also, according to Grudem’s definition of prophecy, it is something mixed with human error in the reception, though its source is God. God reveals his glory to us so that we may be reassured in our daily walk. This blog helps me realize that I truly do see God in the every day, especially in scripture. He saves the rebel and takes hold of the wanderer. (Deuteronomy 8:3) So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD. . So let us be encouraged that our God speaks today (as it is true to his nature) and that we are called, as the body together, to seek him, to listen to him (through Scripture and the present-day work of the Spirit), and to even seek prophecy (1 Cor 14:1). Peter’s word of knowledge in Acts 5 of Ananias and Sapphira’s lying. From the very beginning, God manifested himself to our first parents, Adam and Eve, and invited them to intimate communion with himself. The Lord Jesus Christ began opening the Seals shortly after he went into Heaven to sit with his Father on the Throne. 2) Not every revelation in Scripture would fall under the greater category of redemptive revelation. He could have laid forth another bit of knowledge about her life. Twitter. And thankfully, as we stay connected to Scripture, the church historic and the church present, we will have such great tools available to us in helping us stay the track, being faithful to the revelation of God in Jesus Christ. This revelation is the final word and no other such revelation is needed. Revelation Today is a dynamic series that focuses on the prophecies of the Bible – especially the book of Revelation – as it relates to people living in the 21st century. Actually, the issue wasn’t always whether it came true or didn’t come true. The reality is that when we talk about experiencing the presence of God, things can get real weird real fast. 10 Ways to Experience More of God’s Presence,Whitney Hopler - Read more about spiritual life growth, Christian living, and faith. Yet, I would add we are to believe our God still reveals today. But if we demand “the stuff” we see in Acts, he may answer us with the sound of a gentle whisper. 86. ( Log Out / The same is true for us today. It seems to point to this approach: How do we really [empirically] prove everything? These are just some of the questions we will treat in this brief paper.Our use of the term “revelation” comes from the Greek term ajpokavluyi\… Continuationists believe God still speaks today, not only through the word of God in Scripture, but even through specific words or what we might term ‘revelations’. I have a sense we still have a lot we miss on both of these levels. However, most of the time, our experience of God’s presence will be very “ordinary” (as if meeting with God is ordinary – you get the point). We don’t need to go to a conference or travel to a special meeting (not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that). No, just like our engagement with Scripture, hermeneutics and exegesis. I hope that makes sense. Thank you so very much – I’m so emotional after reading your message ?? From that moment forward miracles were part of the revelation of God. We can’t dictate to God how he will move in our lives. … as I am a highly emotive individual who God has been teaching to walk in obedience by faith without the accompanying feelings that I used to think I needed to know that it was God. Not to mention that we’ve got to deal with the scholarship of prophecy ex eventu, which basically attributes prophecy given “after the event.” Many have a problem with this perspective, but I’m ok with people speaking prophetically about what has already happened in the past, giving a God-perspective of why certain things have happened, rather than predicting the future. But we can also see through visions and dreams and through the use of metaphor. Thank you so much, I give all the praise and honor to God for a follower like you. Does everyone inherently know God? But even more, I believe we have an epidemic in the western church/world, that being our commitment to a modernist, post-Enlightenment approach to knowledge and truth. This comes out very strongly in 1 Cor 12-14. Google+. Therefore, since there are no more apostles today, we no longer need such attesting signs. Special revelation is not generally speculative. “God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us” Whatever else we say about this experience, let this be said: it is not decisively the work of man, but the work of God. The events are mentioned, but not the specific words. To further complicate the book of Revelation, John saw visions of both his present world and of events yet to take place in the future. Amazing stuff. Since God’s Word is now revealed in its completeness, the need for miracles has ended. Remember, that revelation is finished in Christ. We always live Coram Deo – before the face of God. Are there any other ways in which He has revealed himself to us? We call ourselves children of God because we do not know what else to call ourselves, and it seems as good a term as any to use. He’s there also. The presence of God suddenly inhabits all the big and little details of our lives. – but God is still communicating and speaking today. Prayer is saying to God, “Please come and invade the details of my day. If we want to experience the presence of God on a daily basis, it’s as simple as praying. Would that be SO bad? God has manifested … Since God is love (1 John 4:8), to experience His presence is to experience His love. Interpretations . Peter’s word of wisdom in Acts 6 of the need to appoint a team to look after the tables, rather than seeing the apostles pulled into such. In the end, before it’s quoting a few verses here and there and discussing what they mean, we’ve got to also discuss the bigger issues of epistemology and the nature of prophecy. The same is true with our Lord. Once students understand this, it is like watching a light of revelation … It wasn’t set up that way – it’s much more communal and collective. When we spend time with someone in our personal relationships we also get to know more about them. God’s goal for special revelation has always been for humans to know and love Him. ( Log Out / So they do not try to explain these things. This is why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:19: Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? Then we will become useful persons in God’s eyes. Thanks for your interaction. For example say you have a word from God telling you to buy a particular house. The gospel presents the love of God, which he has shown especially by providing salvation from sin through Jesus Christ. If our God were a deity who always communicated in the same way, or who could only be known and experienced by “professional” God-followers, then we might be excused from trying to experience him ourselves. I believe the Pope and I have the same likelihood of receiving a word from the Lord. And this is not a mere cathartic exercise, like journaling or talking through problems with friends. Pinterest . I know we’d rather it be so empirically easy to discover these things. Ezekiel’s experience differed from John’s experience. the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” Reality is Redemption, not my experience of Redemption; but Redemption has no meaning for me until it speaks the … How does God reveal himself to us? We can commune with God and experience his presence in the car, on the subway, in our cubicle, at small group, and anywhere else. I’m happy the search engines took me here! Today, we often need help deciphering these images. God wants us to open our hearts before him, to bring him our burdens, to request big, audacious things of him. I most definitely believe there is no more needed revelation from God with respect to his redemptive purposes in Christ. Note, many High Church Anglicans have gone to Rome now, with the offer of the Catholic “Anglicanorum Coetibus”…. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. I know this might sound quite crazy to many Christian evangelicals. Lastly, people fail to remember that prophecy is not ultimately about predicting the future with the question, “Will this happen or not?” It was always about this: “What is God saying within our context?” Itt was not just foretelling, but forthtelling. So I think there is a balance. However, I think there is a very balanced approach that allows for Scripture to maintain its very needed place as the God-breathed and authoritative written revelation of God while maintaining that God still speaks, reveals and communicates today. When we pray, God is brought into the account, and when that happens, there’s no such thing as impossible. We determine truth by the scientific observation – prove it, show it, concrete, nothing else. You never know how God will meet you as you pore over the sacred text. But if we are suffering unjustly in an evil social system, God’s judgment—far from being a dreaded prospect—is our only hope. John 20:30-31). However, their descriptions clearly show that they saw God there (Ezekiel 10:20; Revelation 4:9-11). God’s Self-Revelation. I think we’d expect that Scripture doesn’t unequivocally speak to every detailed instance in an individual’s life. May I highly recommend a book called “Blessed are the Misfits” by Brant Hansen who has Asperger’s Syndrome and has never experienced the feeling of the presence of God in his life. 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We can commune with God and experience his presence in the car, on the subway, in our cubicle, at small group, and anywhere else. Spirit descended on the disciples of Jesus in the form of fire that they began praising in tongues and experienced mass revelation. So, while obviously most ground their non-acceptance of these gifts in a theological position, I do think fear of anything “extraordinary” and not being about to “figure it all out” can dissuade many very much. Christ remains the final word on such. What Does It Mean To Fear God? If you benefit from the site, would you consider being a supporter? These revelations can come in various manners – prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, visions, dreams, etc. God’s angels deliver messages, they are not the origin of information. A prophecy safe thing to open our hearts before him, to request big audacious! 21:25? ) of our lives not just in Church, where elders teachers... 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